BONUS Mark Gurman interview on iWeek podcast (France) : US version

Transcription

Bonjour à tous, de Paris, France. Je suis Benjamin Vincent, creator, anchor et producer de iWeek, le Apple Week,

le français podcast sur l'écosystème news, disponible sur la place sur tous les plateaux sociaux,

including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, Overcast et Podcast Addict.

This is an English special edition of episode 135 recorded on Tuesday, May 2nd, 2023 from 8.30am Pacific Standard Time.

Our very special guest this week is Bloomberg Apple journalist Mark Gurman for his second appearance on iWeek, the Apple Week podcast.

Joining me to interview Marc, our Elia Bitbol, co-founder MCS Group,

with four Apple Premium resellers store in South of France,

and president of the French APRs.

Gilles Dounès, former editor-in-chief at MacPlus.net,

and co-author iPod Backstage.

Fabrice Neumann, technology mentor and consultant.

And Fran Le Tru computer science teacher in Vannes Brittany To support iWeek please go to patreon slash iWeek And thank you for becoming part of the iWeek community on Patreon

Now it's time to welcome our guest, Marc Gorman.

Bonjour Marc, c'est vraiment grand de vous avoir à la chaîne de l'Apple Week.

Merci d'avoir regardé. C'est un plaisir de vous avoir avec vous tous.

J'ai eu un bon temps la dernière fois et je suis heureux de vous avoir à la chaîne de l'appétition.

Marc, juste comme un appétit, nous allons parler de chaque sujet en un moment.

Mais pourquoi est June 5th so important pour Apple et Tim Cook?

What is at stake

If you look at the big picture?

Yeah, I mean

WWDC, that's when

It's going to be held June 5th, 2023

For the 2023 version

It's always a big deal, right?

They always announce the new versions of

iOS, macOS, watchOS

You name it Which are core to the company over the Next 18 months or so until the version de la version Donc c toujours un tr important jour pour le fait des platforms

Mais pour ce jour en particulier,

ce sera le premier temps en plus de decade

où ils sont annouces une nouvelle nouvelle nouvelle nouvelle

et une nouvelle nouvelle nouvelle.

Et en ce cas, ce qu'ils veulent,

c'est leur futur,

qui est XR, en Mixed Reality.

Et donc vous voyez que l'Apple Headset

est annoncé avec XROS,

new operating system, a new app store, a new developer kit, all for mixed reality VR, AR.

And so it's going to be quite significant.

They really believe that mixed reality is sort of a bridge to an era beyond the iPhone,

right?

Just like the iPad was a bridge to an era beyond the Mac.

That doesn't mean the iPhone is going to necessarily disappear or be completely replaced.

It's just this is the thing after it.

And we're working towards a new future, right?

et June 5th, parce que c'est quand tout va être annoncé,

c'est le début de ça.

C'est ce qui fait ça pour le company.

Il s'est en octobre 1, 2021.

Il était notre guest pour le premier temps

sur iWeek, le Apple Week podcast.

Aujourd'hui, il est en revenu,

et nous sommes heureux de avoir avec nous Bienvenue la fois Marc Gorman Merci pour avoir eu Je suis l pour ici I can believe it been a year and a half but glad that we could make this work and

was looking forward to doing this

and glad to be here.

So let's make the most of it.

In 2016, when you arrived

from 9to5Mac, Vox

wrote that Bloomberg

just hired a 22-year-old

scoop machine. You were part

of Time Magazine 25

top bloggers and wired

16 persons to follow for

consumer tech.

Your specialty is Apple, of course,

Mark, and its competitors.

We have that in common.

But first, a question from Eli.

Yeah,

that's kind of a quiz.

Do you know this logo?

Have you seen it?

I don't know.

No, it doesn't look familiar.

No, well, that's an Apple logo, that's why I showed it to you.

And that's the logo that, it's for a new program for resellers, it's called the APR Champions.

So it's actually for salespeople and when they pass lots of tests, they give you like a gift like that with some stuff.

et un letter saying « You're a champion ».

C'est notre moment

pour te enseigner quelque chose.

Maintenant, c'est votre turn

pour le reste de la show.

Oh, c'est funny.

C'est vrai que ça a fait pour vous ?

Oui, absolument.

C'est génial.

C'est awesome.

Merci.

Comment vous construisez votre réseau

de information, Marc ?

Sans donner un détail,

mais est-ce que après

hanging out many times in Cupertino.

Is it one person that you met one day

and changed everything

after you gained his or her trust?

Or was it spontaneous from readers

within Apple who contacted you?

And how long did it take you

to reach the level where you are today?

Well, you know, I've been covering Apple for,

let's see, I started at 905Mac around 2009,

the very end of 2009.

C'est 2023 maintenant, donc environ 14 ans.

Et c'est un bon temps.

Apple est un certaine société à cover.

C un company que Je suis donc en coverant la soci parce que je suis tellement int dans leur produit et comment le company fonctionne C ce qu ont appel le magique de la main et je voulais toujours faire la main de la main

Donc, c'est un plaisir de lire sur Apple pour le temps et de parler de leur projet.

Donc, c'est vraiment été un grand opportunité et je suis très heureux de pouvoir faire ça.

So a quick follow-up

How do you filter bad tips

Or unreliable sources

You know today we have so many

Information from so many sources

Every day so it's sometimes

Difficult to know who's right who's wrong

So what's your secret

You know like I said I've been

Covering the company for you know

Over a decade now I'm very

Familiar you know

With Apple

very familiar about what makes sense

what doesn't make much sense

and it's a terrific opportunity

to get to write about Apple

on a daily basis

and live and breathe

this stuff

so yeah

it's been a great decade plus

and I hope to keep doing this

for the foreseeable future

We hope so too Marc as a very close commentator of Apple ecosystem I sure like all of us here at least we have wishes

on what new hardware and software features

we would like to see.

And does it sometimes

make your work difficult?

Like, you know, when Apple

still doesn't announce something that

you've been waiting for so long.

Does it make my work difficult?

Not necessarily. I mean, there are some

C'est ce que je suis absolument très excited pour essayer.

Obviamente, cette Mixed Reality Headset est très importante, très très efficace, très futuriste, très cool.

C'est ce qu'ils ont travaillé sur un long terme, ce que je suis en train de faire pour longtemps.

Et je suis très excited pour, vous savez, que j'ai un peu de temps à une fois que je peux et essayer de faire un peu de feedback et d'opinion.

on it, right? I mean, it's nice to write about

the products

a long time, but it's even better to get to try

them out after and

sort of give my take

on the device. So,

I'm very much looking forward to trying out

the headset.

Mark, WDC23 starts on

June 5th with a

special event at Apple Park and a

worldwide stream keynote The much reality headset should make its first appearance as you said can you confirm it for sure is it a sure thing and what is the right way to call it is it extended

reality what is it exactly compared to other realities like virtual or augmented and why

do you think apple made that specific choice of extended reality yes so the headset will be at

WWDC, I've written a few times.

XR,

you know, some people call it extended reality,

others call it mixed reality.

I think Apple will call it mixed reality.

Now, the two main realities

are virtual reality and augmented reality.

Virtual reality is your fully enclosed.

It's displays.

Augmented reality

is you have clear lenses

and it's sort of like Google Glass.

You see information projected over

you know what you're what you're seeing but mixed reality sort of is VR based

right at its core it's VR but then there's an AR mode integrated into it so

you can move between pure VR and sort of fake AR now I call it fake AR because

instead of using your real eyesight

Instead of using clear lenses, it's actually cameras replicating what you see in front of you.

And that's what makes it mixed reality.

The ability to transition between both VR and AR at any time.

And so I think that's going to be a unique aspect of a product.

But it's also a bit of a compromise.

Obviously, the holy grail, so to speak, is pure AR.

But that's not something that's necessarily technologically feasible at this point in time.

Donc, en order to get there, vous voulez que ce mix-tu.

Je vois que ça comme il y a trois tiers d'extended reality.

Il y a VR qui est probablement l'easiest à utiliser,

l'exemple de mix-tu, l'exemple de l'ar.

Et l'ar est le plus difficile.

Et donc, Apple est en train d'offre en l'arrière.

Et ensuite, ils vont probablement travailler leur way

à la plus challenge, l'arrile-sous systems.

Marc, donc, il se semble que Apple,

Même Apple ne sait exactement ce qu'elle va être utilisée pour.

Un peu comme l'Apple Watch à l'époque, si vous voulez.

Vous pouvez nous dire si vous voulez avec ça.

Donc je voulais demander qu que va Je voulais savoir ce que vous voulez Ce que vous voulez que soit et que soit utilis pour So I was wondering instead of trying to guess what it going to be I like to know what you want it to be what you would prefer it to be and to be used for

You know, I sort of like their approach, right?

It's sort of a scattershot approach to include a bunch of different features

and see what really resonates and lands with consumers.

I like that idea.

I like the idea of using this thing to do everything

as ultimately one day a Mac replacement or an iPad replacement.

I think would be pretty cool

to be able to do everything you normally do

in your work environment but do it in mixed reality

I think that would be quite cool

so looking forward to trying everything

and seeing for me what sticks

personally, I think video

watching and watching

maybe the Lakers in there

highlights and such

I think would be quite compelling

so definitely looking forward

to trying it out for sure

What do you expect

the headset to look like

with what features

we've heard a lot about numerous

cameras you just

mentioned what they could be used for

and screens also

displays on the outside of

the headset what is

true what is not among all that yeah I mean that all true I mean the headset is going to look similar to the renders you seen online already it going to look like you know Oui c tout vrai Le headset est all similar la renders que vous avez vu d Il va comme les Macs en termes de la mati

les cushions, les moldes, le mouledir, le overall form factor.

Les displays inside sont allés à 4K each,

micro-lead displays, extrêmement high-resolution.

uh there's gonna be scanners inside of the displays that can read your eyes right retina

scanners to understand uh where you're looking there's also going to be cameras on the exterior

uh for a few for a few things one is for a technology called slam that's the sense where

you are in space and to basically shoot lasers around your environment to understand uh where

you are also

to enable the AR mode

right the pass through mode

and then you mentioned the display

externally that's

to do a live replication

of your eyes

wow

it's going to look so weird

so you mean your eyes

will be displayed on the outside of the

headset?

your eyes will be displayed on the outside Max Headroom says Gilles

But what is the purpose of having your eyes replicated on the outside?

You will have to tune in to one of my future articles

for a bit more insight into the decision-making there.

But I think it will be a key part of the product for sure.

The amount of technology they're cramming into this device is, I think, unprecedented, right?

It's going to be extremely complicated to produce.

And that's why the development timeline has already hit seven years, eight years or such, right?

Because it is so advanced.

They're not leaving any stone unturned here in terms of the capabilities and the technologies and the offering, right?

et c'est pourquoi il va être entre 2 500 et 3000 dollars

US

je ne sais pas comment ça compare

à l'euro

mais c'est pas assez expensive

oui ils vont avoir VAT

donc c'est un peu plus de cent

plus probablement

simple question

avez-vous seen et ou avez-vous tried

il ?

seen the headset and have i tried it uh i'm looking forward to uh trying it officially when

it hits uh stores uh you know in the next several months or so um definitely looking forward to

trying it i have not tried it okay maybe maybe unofficially maybe peut-être pas officiellement

nous avons le sentiment

que le headset,

en tant qu'il est un produit

qui sera en un produit

en un environnement negatif,

parce que la metaverse

et les opportunistes VR headsets

qui s'est battu,

et que ça double le challenge

pour Apple en termes de risques.

Ce qu'est Apple

en faire en cette phase?

Oui, je complètement agree.

Je pense que c'est difficile

de lancer un produit

que personne ne pense qu'ils ont besoin, un produit que est overpricé,

un produit sans un purgatoire, je pense que c'est tout très difficile

mais maintenant que vous êtes en train de mettre en un certaine market

que vous avez soil en part par le instabilit que Meta a cr pour Il y a eu de soin de mal press la meta non pas n

qu'il y a de la metaverse,

mais le turmoil

que le company a été through

a sort de show le monde

que peut-être la metaverse

et peut-être la virtual reality

et non-métuel reality

sont pas les next big chose.

Et donc,

Apple non seulement

a de la consommation

de la consommation

de pourquoi ils devaient

ce produit,

mais ils devaient

à la consommation

et pourquoi tout le monde a été wronge.

On top de ça, ils lancent un nouveau produit,

un produit que personne ne peut vraiment vraiment besoin.

En fait, ce qu'on va à faire,

c'est que personne ne peut pas avoir besoin.

Mais vous allez avoir besoin.

Exactement.

Ils vendent dans un temps

où il y a beaucoup de

un-metaverse-related économique turmoil.

Et un certaine de la vie.

Ça ne a rien à faire avec le technologie.

Et dans les temps,

les gens ne veulent pas faire des decisions comme ça.

ils ne veulent pas faire des décisions de la compétence

il y a beaucoup de gens qui vont vouloir et qui vont vouloir

mais je pense que le deck est sort de stack

contre Apple dans so many different ways

pour cette product launch

mais je ne vais pas bet contre Apple

je veux être clair, je ne vais pas bet contre Apple

est que Tim Cook est que le design team qui s apr l Anki departure Est que tu as opposed le design team donner un go sans l interne

Oui, je ne pense pas.

Il y a eu un situation

en 2018

où il y a un part

de la compagnie

qui voulait le headset

de être

un stand-alone.

Une autre part

de la compagnie

voulait le headset

de avoir un hub

et si vous connect

à la hub wirelessly,

la device

va être encore plus

pour graphics,

pour gaming.

Et

l'application

d'executive team

s'adoubte avec

le part de la compagnie

qui voulait

le device

to be still alone, which makes more sense to me

other than the external battery pack.

So I think that is the discrepancy

and that was the situation that

some have referred to, but I don't think that

there was

disagreement

or misalignment

the way

you described it or the way others have described

it between Tim and the design team.

In terms of Tim

pushing for the mixed reality headset So it was way before that it happened mais il y avait way before I think there way more to it I think it the situation I described

I think there's a bigger

situation as well

which we'll get into in the future.

But I don't think that

Tim Cook

pressured the design

team to launch

a product that they didn't want

to launch.

I think Tim Cook and the design team

were on the same page.

I'll just leave it at that.

Gilles, question from you.

Among all the users

that you mentioned,

there is still one big

historical absentee

at the very heart

of Apple's DNA

and that's education

and more broadly training

especially since Microsoft

has already positioned

en ce secteur avec ses HoloLens.

Est-ce Apple a gardé des raps ?

Ou peut-on nous dire tout ?

Est-ce que vous avez fait un unbrékeable rau ou quelque chose ?

Oui, oui.

Qu'est-ce que l'enseignement et l'entraînement ?

pour Mation, Marc?

I have to imagine that there's going to be

big applications for education for this device, right?

And using Mixed Reality to learn,

I think that it could enable new ways of virtual learning, right?

And I think it could create more immersive virtual learning

and remote learning.

I think that certainly could be a very compelling use case

for the device.

And I'm personally looking forward to seeing, like yourself,

how that all plays out.

I definitely think that the App Store is going to be a big part of that.

I wonder if Apple will actually release education tools for the device at the get-go.

I would imagine a little later after the initial launch,

they typically do that for education products.

If you remember with the iPad,

they sort of let developers show how they can make education software for it.

And then Apple added things like schoolwork and, you know,

other education programs there.

I definitely think so.

The App Store will be a big part of it.

But I also think that Apple will play into it.

et je pense que les applications

que ils sont travaillés sur

incluant

Freeform, c'est un collaborateur

un collaborateur app que vous avez vu

Apple's devices aujourd'hui

je pense que peut jouer dans l pour les cas aussi Book reading that could play into it too So I definitely think there a lot

of ways that they can integrate education

remote learning and collaboration

into this product and I think it could be quite exciting.

The problem I'll tell you is

the price. The reason the iPad

is able to be deep in education

environments is because the

price is fairly competitive.

You can get an iPad for I think sub

$300 on the education market

whereas we're talking about a device

here that's going to cost 10x

so I think it's going to be very much

more about personal education

and remote education

rather than schools buying these devices up

unless they have a big

endowment

Do you see a second headset

cheaper and maybe less premium

launched

sometime next year

for that reason?

I mean at this point

given how much, how long

that this first headset has run behind

I wouldn't anticipate

the second generation devices

until the end of 2025

at the earliest. There'll be a new high end

so a second generation of this first headset

and then I think

there be a new low end that going to be probably at least cheaper You know the first headset is very much filled with mac grade components uh whereas i think that this lower price one will be more on

the scale of iphone components fabrice you have an idea of usage for the the headset

uh mark a little bit tongue-in-cheek if uh if i may i was wondering if you thought all the

les Apple stores dans le monde

déjà ont été

3D scanné

et nous pouvons

visiter les

dans le

headset

Have they been 3D scanné

already?

Do you think they have?

Oh, I have no idea

What would

the purpose of that be to visit an Apple store

virtually?

The thing is, we've

seen

we're all looking for

things to do with the

headset and also a nice

demonstration to be done with

the headset to

demo its capacities

right and

at least

in the Apple community

we all every time there a new store opening there are big titles and articles about new stores in India for example recently

So I was wondering if it would be something, at least to demo it, to show its capacity.

It's possible. It's not something that I thought of. It's not something I've heard about.

But certainly, I guess it's possible.

I think it's more likely that you'll see demos related to maps

or more famous places than within Apple retail stores themselves.

Maybe you can take a virtual tour of the Taj Mahal or the Eiffel Tower

or Buckingham Palace or the White House

rather than an Apple retail store in Kentucky.

I don't know.

Je parle de l'indique, mais de la Kentucky.

Ou de l'indique.

Nous avons parlé de l'héadset beaucoup,

et tout le monde est parlé de l'appel.

Mais n'était-ce pas les glasses de l'appel

qui était la grande chose de l'appel?

Qu'est-ce qui se fait à ces glasses?

Oui, le moyen de se rendre à l'appel,

c'est de la purestité.

Comme je disais, vous avez de commencer avec la réalité.

La technologie n'est pas à cause de faire des glasses à l'arrière.

C'est un long ways d'aider.

Ils ont mis en postont, ils ont mis en postont.

Ils ont mis en postont, ils ont mis en postont.

À ce point, c'est pas quelque chose qu'ils ont la ligne de sight.

Mais je pense qu'ils vont arriver.

Et le moyen de se trouver est de commencer avec une réalité.

Hum.

Il y a toujours un peu de espace pour les yeux, Marc.

J'ai espace.

Oui, j'ai espace.

Je ne pense pas qu'il va être dans les 5 ans,

mais je pense qu'il va arriver.

Gilles, une question de toi.

L'année dernière,

sur votre Power On

letter,

vous avez mentionné

des projets plus longs

pour Apple

dans le cadre de l'hériture

et de la vision,

en particulier l'amélioration de la myopia

sans avoir trop de d Est qu y a une feature possible pour les augmenter r glissons

Je pense que c'est certainement possible.

Les myopia features que je vous ai referie à

sont dans le app,

pour pouvoir plug-in

votre eye stats

et le données,

comment vous êtes en certain temps de la journée,

un plus vision management.

Je pense que c'est certainement possible

que les cameras peuvent aider.

that you will be able to get versions of the Apple headset with prescription lenses and such so

I think it's certainly something they are thinking about I understood that we should we should get

used to the the term mixed reality do you have are you certain about the the name of the the

headset and and the name of the OS that will run it because we heard several possibilities so the

name of the OS will be XROS

and the name of the headset

according to the trademarks will either

be Reality Pro or Reality

1 and I'm definitely looking

forward to seeing what they end up choosing.

It's always exciting to figure out what the name of

the new product is going to be. Maybe

it'll be something completely out of left field.

Who knows But it be exciting either way We know for sure on June 5th and there are also Macs going their way to June 5th mais il va excitant l nous allons savoir sur le 5 juin et il y a aussi Macs qui vont leur way le 5 juin

mais le seul

qui semble presque certain

et est certain

est le Macbook Air 15.5

15 inch

il va être un nouveau 15 inch Macbook Air

je pense que ça va être assez populaire

pour les gens qui veulent

les plus grands prix

sans le prix de la Macbook Pro

So, certainly, I think it would be appealing to me

and many other people who are frequently traveling for work and such.

I listened to your taking part in MacRumors' podcast a few days ago,

and I heard, I discovered that this large MacBook Air

is one of Apple's oldest projects.

It is an old project.

It's something they've tried to do a few times.

Ils voulaient que ça soit

au long de la 13-inch

redesign last year

mais ils voulaient que ça

et qu'ils voulaient à un autre

et ça fait sens

surtout dans les production issues

qu'ils avaient last year

Oui, nous rêvons d'autres Macs

en June 5

et le premier que nous sommes

notre mind est le Mac Pro avec Apple Silicon We been waiting for so much time Where is it

Frequent delays.

Frequent delays.

I certainly think there's a lot of delays,

but I think they will get it out the door this year.

It's going to be quite compelling

from a performance standpoint,

and I think it'll be interesting,

the combination of Apple Silicon

with the fans, right?

et donc je pense que c'est bien

pour voir que ça soit au bout de la porte

Vous aimeriez un M3 avec le Mac Pro

c'est pourquoi il pourrait être

ce mois mais plus

à l'année dernière ?

Je ne pense pas que ça va M3

je pense que ça va M2 Ultra

Oh

C'est intéressant

C'est intéressant

Comment vous voyez le reste

de la Mac Galaxy

organisé autour de ça ?

parce que certains Macs vont changer à M3.

Donc, comment peut-être Mac Pro et M2 compare?

Oui, mais vous avez des super-endres M2s et des low-endres M3s,

il va être deux ans ou un mois avant qu'ils peuvent faire un M3 all-truck,

et ils ne vont pas attendre un mois et demi.

C'est la même situation où ils ont M1 Pro et M1 Pro,

Maxes versus the M2s

for a while, right? The regular M2s.

So I think that's just the way that these things

have to ramp and roll out.

Et si je te dis

Max Studio, il se passe quoi?

If I tell you Max Studio,

what happens?

I think there'll be a new Max Studio

with the M3 generation.

So maybe in about a year from now.

Or a year and a half from now.

Marc, thank you so much for being

on High Week. It was a true pleasure to

have you again. And we'll

follow you until June 5

and beyond for sure. Merci beaucoup.

Thank you. I really appreciate it.

Thank you guys so much.

See you next time. Bye. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Once again, thank you, Marc.

And thank you to each of you

listening for your attention.

If you are on Apple Podcast,

we'd really love to find

a nice written review

and a five-star rating from you.

It is so important to help us gain new listeners.

You can follow us and retweet Twitter at iWeek News, Instagram at iWeek.News and Mastodon at iWeek News at Mastodon.world.

Last, to support iWeek and our work done with so much passion, please consider joining on Patreon.com slash iWeek.

I'm Benjamin Vincent from Paris, France.

We'll see you again.

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BONUS Mark Gurman interview on iWeek podcast (France) : US version

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